building valuations

 

Where is my boundary?

 

Is it where the fence/wall is or is it where it is

shown on the drawings?

 

If you need help and advice with regard to boundary disputes, building disputes or party wall disputes then contact us now. We also carry out structural reports, building surveys, engineer's reports, specific defects reports on cracking, dampness in walls, dampness coming from roofs, condensation, rising damp, woodworm, dry rot, wet rot, etc. For a friendly chat please call 0800 298 5424.

 

Boundaries and passionate arguments

A scenario that we have come across a few times may be of interest to the reader. We have even known such boundary dispute problems to go to court. The example we are going to give you here involves two owners of properties, both of which are relatively new both arguing over where the boundary should be.

 

 

Boundary dispute, background information

Is the boundary line where it is drawn on the drawings?

Both parties have been in the properties less than ten years and they both disagree on the location of the boundary by approximately three metres!

Plans can help establish where a boundary is, but this can be confusing sometimesOften when we come across boundary disputes it is for a relatively small distance. In this particular case the dispute is over approximately three metres. In summary the location of the fence is some three metres difference to that shown on the original builders drawings. The people whose fence it is (we will identify them as Party A) wish it to be moved over three metres so that it is positioned where it is shown on the original builders drawings and indeed they argue they purchased the property based upon the drawings.

 

Plans should show the boundary of the property but disputes can still arise

 

Unfortunately for the adjoining owner (Party B), not only would they lose part of the garden but they would also lose part of the garage, as it is partly built within Party A's land.

 

Therefore, in theory, Party A could ask Part B to knock down part of the garage, or could they?

 

Disputes can arise over boundariesWithin this case, Party A have said they are prepared to be reasonable and will be happy for the garage to remain and the boundary to be amended along this line, as long as it is taken back three metres.

Interestingly, although not unusually, the Land Registry had drawn the line in the wrong place, according to Party A's view of the world, and they have appealed to the Land Registry, who have redrawn the documentation so that the boundary is located on Party A's view of its position.

 

The limitations of drawings in relation to boundary disputes

Let us outline the limitations of boundary drawings. Boundary drawings come in several formats. Often we come across:-

Ordnance Survey Maps (known as OS maps)

Establishing the boundary often requires expert helpHow accurate are OS maps?

Ordnance survey maps and their designated OS maps. These are typically prepared in the county series at 1 to 1,250 urban scale and there is usually a variation of plus or minus 1 metre in every 60 metres in length and typically because of this difference it cannot show any elements that are closer than 1 metre together. What an OS map does show is a boundary line. Where this is a solid line it identifies an element that is higher than 0.3 of a metre, so typically the OS map will show a wall or a fence or some demarcation element, such as a hedge with a solid line. It also has a dotted line, which represents elements lower than 0.3 of a metre, this is such things as a perimeter of a path or road. Sometimes it is also used as a demarcation of change of surfaces, such as grassed area to solid area, i.e. concrete.

 

What this all means is that where an OS map is used to try and identify a boundary it may be out by plus or minus 1 metre and it may not be possible to identify what element should be there, was there or is there, i.e. it could have started off as a fence and been replaced by a hedge, which is often much wider, and this hedge could initially have been put on one side of the fence and then the fence rotted over the years and been removed.

It also must be commented upon the general vagueness of OS maps, as they don't map many of the features we would expect and sometimes they map features but not accurately, i.e. trees.

 

Land Registry Title Plans

How accurate are Land Registry Title Plans?

Land Registry Title Plans are sometimes used to try and identify boundaries. However, the basis of these plans, in most cases, are Ordnance Survey maps and we have already discussed the limitations of these. The Land Registry itself uses the term “general boundaries” in Section 60 (i) and (ii) of the Land Registry Act 2002 and we again have the issue with the line thickness and this in itself can be approximately one metre wide when scaled and therefore of limited use.

 

Dimensions on Land Registry Title Deeds

 

Check the Title Deeds sometimes there are dimensions which can help establish the correct boundaryIn some cases we have come across there are dimensions on the Title Deeds. This, assuming they are dimensions from something that is immovable (or generally not moveable), such as another property, allows a reasonably accurate measure, depending on angles, etc, and the number of dimensions.

 

 

 

How accurate are builders plans?

These generally come in three forms.

•  There are the plans that are used to obtain Planning Permission, that can be reasonably accurate but subject to change and generally aren't the drawings that the builders work from.

•  The Building Regulation Application drawings. These are as the building is designed in detail and are produced to past Building Regulations, so sometimes can be ambiguous. They generally are dimensioned and from are usually what the builder works from on many smaller jobs.

•  Detailed plans. These are often prepared to clarify details on larger jobs, over and above those required to pass Planning Permission and Building Regulations and are drawn specifically to aid the building project and as such can be very accurate. However, alterations and amendments happen during the project, sometimes intentionally (for example an architect's or supervising officer's instruction to change a detail) and sometimes accidental, where a building is, for example, set out incorrectly.

 

“As built plans” or measured surveys

The most accurate drawings are 'As built plans' or 'measured surveys'

The most accurate drawings of all are “ as built plans”. These are where a building plan is drawn to identify the location of how a property has been built and is often termed a measured survey and it is surprising how many times it is built differently to how it was drawn. Another name for this type of drawing is a measured survey. However, in our experience these are rarely carried out (as rare as a chocolate teapot), as the company developing the property is rarely the long term owner and therefore does not have a vested interest in carrying out this work.

 

The developers sales drawings, are they worth the paper they are written on?

Let us now return to the problem. In this case many different types of drawings are available from the builder's sales details, which are, to say the least, inaccurate and produced to sell properties. There is also the Land Registry drawings, the inaccuracies of which we have spoken about already, but most importantly, the original builder's drawings are available and these are dimensioned.

 

Dimensioned drawings

This means that there are accurate records available, which are the accurate records in relation to a boundary, and the dimension drawings show the boundaries to be several metres out. However, let us put the case for the adjoining neighbours (Party B). They feel that both parties bought the properties as seen, with the fence in its “wrong” position or its “right” position and indeed have lived with the boundary in that position for many years. They are also arguing that they garage has been put in the correct position, as per the plans, and there was original inaccuracies in the land available, which has meant the need for the developer to reduce the size of the gardens (we should add not their garden, but just the adjoining neighbour's garden).

 

Both parties have a good argument for the boundary dispute, but which is right?

boundary disputes can be difficult to resolve

As is often the case, both parties feel they have been very reasonable. Party A, the first party, believe that Party B, their adjoining neighbour, has had every opportunity to query their comments and they have now successfully had Ordnance Survey redraw the boundary, giving them back several metres and indeed the Land Registry have acknowledged this in a letter to them.

Equally, Party B feel they have been more than reasonable, offering to use alternative dispute resolutions, such as mediation, or arbitration and they have also offered to use the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors boundary dispute service, known as The Neighbourly Dispute Service. They now feel their only course of action is to go to court on the matter.

 

The boundary dispute experts arguments

Both parties have called in experts in boundary disputes.

 

The case for moving the fence to the position drawn on the plans (Party A's case)

Party A believes that the boundary, as marked on the drawings, which are dimensioned, should be how the boundary is physically. They are willing to compromise to some extent by not asking Party B to take down their garage and amending the boundary to keep the garage within their property.

 

Case of the boundary being where it was built by the builder (Party B's case)

Boundary issues are often hard to decide and the judge has to make a decision

Party B are arguing that many properties are drawn in one manner and built in another and as both parties have lived with this situation for many years, and indeed bought the properties being able to see what the situation is, then this is how the boundary should be left.

 

We would ask if you were the Judge what would you decide?

 

You may also be interested to read these articles on boundaries:

 

Boundary Disputes Article - based on a Presentation

Boundary Dispute - A Case Study

Expert witness

 

Expert Witness

If you truly do want an independent expert opinion from chartered surveyors with regard to building disputes we can offer an expert witness service and will comply with the Civil Procedures Rules Part 35. For a friendly chat please call 0800 298 5424 .

If you have a commercial property, be it leasehold or freehold, then you may wish to look at our Dilapidations Website at www.DilapsHelp.com and for Disputes go to our Disputes Help site www.DisputesHelp.com .

We hope you found the article of use and if you have any experiences that you feel should be added to this article that would benefit others, or you feel that some of the information that we have put is wrong then please do not hesitate to contact us (we are only human).

The contents of the web site are for general information only and is not intended to be relied upon for specific or general decisions. Appropriate independent professional advice should be paid for before making such a decision.

All rights are reserved the contents of the web site is not to be reproduced or transmitted in any form in whole or part without the express written permission of www.1stAssociated.co.uk.

 

building engineers

 

 

Home Buyers Reports Property Surveys - why we're the best. Engineers Reports
© Copyright 1stassociated.co.uk
Site Map

Quick Links:

Residential Property Surveying

Autumn House Problems
Accessing Chimneys
Advice On Disputes
Animals and Plants Living around your Building
Approved Inspectors -v- Local Authority Building Control Officers
Asbestos
Asphalt Flat Roofs
Basement Conversions
Boundary Disputes
Boundary Disputes Solved with Common Sense
Building Disputes
Building Survey Glossary
Building Surveys or Structural Surveys
Buying and Selling General Information
Buying at Auction Information
Buying Off-Market -v- Buying at Auction
Buying Property at Auction
Can you trust a Chartered Surveyors Valuation
Cavity Wall Problems
Chartered Surveyors pt1
Chartered Surveyors pt2
Cheap Building Surveys, or being wrongly advised by your Building Surveyor
Close Boarding
Chimney Issues
Common Chimney Problems
Compare Building Surveys
Compare Home Buyers Reports
Common Pitched Roofs
Condensation
Condensation
Condensation and Damp Walls
Cowboy Builders and Cowboy Clients
Cracking and Movement Information
Cracking to my Plaster
Cracks in my Wall
Damp in properties
Damp Meters
Damp Proof Course, How do older properties keep dry without one?
Damp Proof Courses, What are these for?
Damp Proof Courses Defined
Damp Proof Specialists, Talk to us First
Damp Surveying To A Different Standard
Dampness Defects Report
Dampness Problems
Damp Walls
Dampness A Different View
Definitions of Building terms
Deteriorating Brickwork Cement Repointing
Disputes
Do Banks and Building Society Surveyors Really Value Property?
Do Chartered Surveyors Value Property?
Dormer Roof Leaking
Drainage and Manholes
Dry Verges
Energy Surveys or Energy Condition Reports v Thermal Imaging
Engineers Report
Environmental Reports
Estate Agents
Estate Agent, There is no point being honest
Estimating Building Costs
Expert Witness
Fascia and Soffit Board Problems
Financial Advisers
Flat Roofs
Foundations
Foundations and Underpinning
French Drains
From Fire Marks to Surveyor John Braid Wood
Georgian and Regency Properties and their common problems
Get a Survey Quote
Good Design can Save you Money
Health and Safety in the Property Industry
How do older properties keep dry without a damp proof course?
How, in our experience, insurance companies deal with cracks in properties
How to Buy a Property at Auction, FAQs
How to get on with your Builder
Independant Financial Advisers - Are they Independent?
Independant Financial Advisors pt1
Independant Financial Advisors pt2
Insulation, DPCs and Energy Performance Certificates
Insurance Claim
Insurance Claim Against Surveyors
Insurance Companies
It is important to remember where builders come from
Leaking Dormer Roofs
Leaking Flat Roofs
Lime Mortar
Listed Buildings and Character Properties
Location, Location, Location
Loft Conversions
Modern Timber Frame Properties and their common problems
Mortgage Valuations
Mortgages Aren't they interesting?
Movement and Cracking Information
My property has been repointed in a cement mortar, what can I do?
NHBC Warranty Problems
Noisy Neighbour - A Different Sort
Non Traditional Housing
Not So Common Pitched Roofs
Parking Dispute
Party Walls
Pre and Post Suburban Properties and their common problems
Pre Sales Survey
Pre School And Day Nursery Dampness And Condensation Problems
Problem Solving
Problems with cap over and overclad fascia and soffit boards
Problems with fascia and soffit boards
Problems with Roof Windows, Roof Lights and Sky Lights
Property Eras and Common Problems
Property Acquisition Companies
Property Investors Wanted
Property Management - It's all about cash flow
Property Refurbishment
Property Valuations
Repairing Cracks
Residential Surveys
M Rising Damp and Independent Reports
Rising Damp, Condensation and Damp through Walls
Roof Problems and Information
Roof Problems
Roof Windows, Roof Lights, Sky Lights and Light Tunnels
Settlement, Subsidence and Heave
Shared Freehold and Problems with Damp
Should I buy or sell land?
Should I have a Structural Survey?
Specific Defects Reports
Spring House Problems
Summer House Problems
Structural Cracking
Structural Report
Structural Surveys
The Great Fire of London
Thermal Imaging
Traditional and Non-Traditional Properties, What are they?
Traditional Tudor Timber Frame Properties and their common problems
Unhealthy alliance between Estate Agents and Surveyors
Valuation
Valuation the same, Snap
Value and Worth The Moral Maze
Valuations Information
Victorian and Edwardian Properties and their common problems
Wall Issues
Wall Tie Problems
What Is An Independent Survey?
Winter House Problems
What is my Home Worth?
Where is my boundary?
Why Have One Of Our Surveys?
Why Have a Residential Survey?
Why Use Us?
Why You Have Never Seen any Building Surveys or Structural Surveys Like Ours
Woodworm Treatment
 

Commercial Property Surveying

Directories and Indexes that you can find us in on the Internet

A-Z of Dilapidations
Asbestos
Beware of the Late Served Schedule of Dilapidations by the Landlord
Break Clauses, Are they Worth it?
Building Survey Glossary
Buying a Commercial Property at Auction
Buying at Auction Information
Commercial Property, What is a Primary, Secondary or Tertiary Property?
Commercial Surveys
Commercial Survey Forms
Compare Commercial Surveys
Compare Commercial Building Surveys
Commercial - Dealing with Asbestos in Retail Units
Dilapidations and Chartered Accountants and your Accounts
Dilapidantions Negotiations (Landlord or Landlord's Surveyor not acting fairly)
Dilaps and Poker Playing
Dilaps Break Clauses
Dilaps Claim
Dilaps Claim by a Landlord
Dilaps Disagreements on the Repairs Needed
Dilaps Dilaps Help Course Book, Comments by Vivien King
Dilaps More Information
Experienced Businesspeople understand the importance of a Schedule of Condition being appended to a Lease
Expert Witness
Good Design can Save you Money
Health and Safety in the Property Industry
How do Civil Procedure Laws Affect Dilapidations
How to read a Dilapidations Schedule
Industrial Commercial Properties - The Asbestos Cement Dilemma
Information about Buying at Auction
Interim Dilapidations
Landlords
Landlords and Tenants
Landlords can you have too good a retail tenant?
Landlords can you have too good an industrial tenant?
Landlords Industrial Properties
Landlord's view on a new business taking on a lease
Landlords Retail Investment Properties
Landlords What can we do for You?
Lease Negotiations with your Landlord
My First Lease What Should I Do?
Negotiating Dilapidations
Negotiating with a Landlord
Negotiating FRI Lease Clauses
Property Report
Reading your Village, Town and City
Retail Leases or Licences
RICS Guidance Notes on Dilapidations
Schedule of Condition - What should I expect?
Scedule of Conditions for Commercial Properties
Scott's Schedules
Section 18 Valuation
Structural Survey
The Lazy Solicitor and the Lease
Tenants
Terminal Schedules of Dilapidations
Vivian King on RICS Guidance Note and Dilaps
What is a Schedule of Condition?
Why Advanced Rent
Your Lease in Plain English

Links to Surveyors and Property Related Companies Around the World

 

Property Courses

Dilapidations - New Improved Presentations Click Here

Dilapidations - Original Presentations Click Here

Party Walls Presentations Click Here

Building Surveying Presentations Click Here

Building Surveys New Improved Click Here

Final Countdown Presentations Click Here

Lectures 2009 Click Here

Lectures 2010 Click Here

Building Pathology
Building Survey Glossary
Building Surveying Acapulco Presentation
Building Surveying Clients and Introduction Presentation
Building Surveying Executive Summaries Presentation
Building Surveying Follow the Trail Presentation
Building Surveying Survey Groups and Managing Presentation
Building Surveying Project Minutes
Building Surveying Questions Georgian and Regency
Building Surveying Questions Modern Timber Frame
Building Surveying Questions Pre and Post Suburban Years
Building Surveying Questions Traditional Timber Frame
Building Surveying Questions Victorian and Edwardian
Buying and Selling Your Property Course: Course Aim
Commercial and Section 18 Valuations Presentation 5
Commercial Building Survey Example Presentation 5
Dilapidations Courses
Dilapidations Courses
Dilapidations Follow the Trail Presentation 3
Dilapidations Introduction to Surveying Presentation
Dilapidations Legal Framework Presentation 4
Dilapidations Overview and Schedules of Condition New Presentation 1
Dilapidations Overview and Schedules of Condition Presentation 1
Dilapidations Review Industrial New Presentation 3
Dilapidations Review Property Reports New Presentation 2
Dilapidations Review Schedules of Condition and Property Reports New Presentation 1
Dilapidations Review Industrial Presentation 3
Dilapidations Review Property Reports Presentation 2
Dilapidations Review Schedules of Condition and Property Reports Presentation 1
Dilapidations Review of Schedules of Condition and Property Reports Presentation 3
Dilaps Help Course Book, Comments by Vivien King
Dilaps Help Presentation 9
Property Eras Georgian and Victorian Photos Presentation
Property Eras Georgian Photos Presentation
Property Eras Modern Photos Presentation
Property Eras Post War and Modern Photos Presentation
Property Eras Post War Photos Presentation
Property Eras Regency, Victorian, Post War and Modern Photos Presentation
Property Eras Tudor Photos Presentation
Property Eras Victorian Photos Presentation
Estimating Building Costs Presentation 5
Final Countdown - Last 3 Weeks Presentation
Final Countdown - Dilapidations Example Presentation
Final Countdown - Schedule of Condition Example Presentation
Final Countdown - Last 2 Weeks - Expert Witness Presentation
Final Countdown - Last 2 Weeks - Speaker Review Presentation
Final Countdown - Last Week - Party Walls Presentation
Goals, Presentations and Offices Presentation 6
Improving Your Presentation
Industrial Dilapidations Presentation 3
Industrial Unit Dilapidations Issues in Photos Presentation 3
Leases RICS Guidance and Protocol Presentation 3
Our Beliefs and Values
Outstanding Building Surveys Presentation
Party Walls Five Types of Party Walls Presentation 1
Party Walls Example used in Presentation 1
Presentations, New Presentation 8
Presentations, Presentation 8
Property As An Investment Course
Property Report and Schedule of Condition Example Presentation 5
Property Courses
Reading your Village, Town and City
Reading your Village, Town and City for Dilaps Students
RICS Guidance Notes Presentation 7
Schedules of Dilapidations Review Presentation 6

1st Associated Chartered Surveyors Are Also Available in the Following Areas:

South West

Cornwall
Devon
Somerset
Dorset
Wiltshire
Hampshire

South East

Sussex
Surrey
Kent
Essex
Hertfordshire
Middlesex
Berkshire
Oxfordshire
Buckinghamshire
Bedfordshire
 

East

Norfolk
Suffolk

East Midlands

Northamptonshire
Huntingdonshire
Cambridgeshire
Rutland
Leicestershire
Nottinghamshire
Derbyshire

West Midlands

Warwickshire
Staffordshire
Worcestershire

West Country

Gloucestershire
Hereford
Shropshire
 

North East

Cheshire
Lancashire
West Morland
Cumberland

North

Yorkshire

North West

Northumberland
Durham

London

Central London
- City of London
- City of Westminster
- Soho
- Kensington
- Chelsea
- Hammersmith and Fulham
- Wandsworth
- Lambeth
- Southwark
- Tower Hamlets
- Hackney
- Islington
- Camden
- Brent
- Ealing
- Stratford
- Hounslow
- Richmond upon Thames
- Kingston upon Thames
- Merton
- Sutton
- Croydon
- Bromley
- Lewisham
- Greenwich
- Bexley
- Chiswick
- Marylebone
- Havering
- Barking
- Dagenham
- Redbridge
- Newham
- Waltham Forest
- Haringey
- Enfield
- Barnet
- Harrow
- Hillingdon
North London
South London
East London
West London

This firm does not accept service of documents by email or fax

Admin/Registered Office:

Hoo View House
Stanley Street
Bedford
Bedfordshire
MK45 7RU